Help! Optimal iron spin rates and landing angles for a high ball speed player.

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By Nate W

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  1. Nate W

    Nate W

    Titleist Forum Post: Hey Titleist! I've got the original AP2s with Project X 6.5 that I'm looking to replace. The new T-MBs seem pretty rad! I got on the launch monitor at a local shop to figure out my baseline numbers with my current clubs and it seems like I'm launching low, spinning high, and my landing angle is too shallow. My current ball flight isn't too bad, the high spin helps counteract the low trajectory, so I'm holding greens pretty well. In light of that, I'm interested in getting a higher launch, with lower spin, but most importantly, I’m stoked about getting my landing angle to steepen up.

    Here's my current numbers:

    5 iron - '08 Ap2 w/ Proj X 6.5 club speed (104.1) ball speed (146.8) smash factor (1.41) launch angle (11.2) back spin (6042) peak height (31yrds) landing angle (44) carry (214)

    6 iron - '08 Ap2 w/ Proj X 6.5 club speed (101.4) ball speed (139.9) smash factor (1.38) launch angle (13.6) back spin (7151) peak height (37yrds) landing angle (48) carry (194)

    7 iron - '08 Ap2 - Proj X 6.5 club speed (97.7) ball speed (130) smash factor (1.33) launch angle (15) back spin (7786) peak height (35yrds) landing angle (48) carry (178)

    PW - '08 - Ap2 Proj X 6.5 club speed (98.6) ball speed (121.3) smash factor (1.23) launch angle (19.7) back spin (9300) peak height (36yrds) landing angle (51) carry (158)

    These were all taken at a golf shop whose monitor does not do club head tracking, so ball speed/spin/angles should be good, but head speed is just based off of smash factor. Used my normal ProV1x ball, but the yardages are short (10-15yrds) of what I hit on the course. I’ve got a very late release and take a healthy divot on most shots, and I’m a 3 handicap.

    So key questions: 1) Since my ball speed is pretty high, I’ve been having a hard time finding anyone who understands how to fit a person that hits it hard or has X shafts that I can try. After going down the internet research fitting rabbit hole, I’ve come to the conclusion that contrary to most forum stuff, I should be optimizing playability, not distance. Given that goal, it seems like I should be trying to get my descent angle to match up closer to PGA averages, (about 48, 49, 50, 50, 50, 51, 52 degrees on 4-PW) while keeping the spin rate a few hundred RPM above PGA averages (4836, 5361, 6231, 7097, 7998, 8647, 9304 on 4-PW) Is this a good approach, any other suggested strategies? Do you guys have any Trackman data of a similar PGA swing that I might be able to match up numbers with?

    2) For a 5 iron spin rates I’ve gotten suggested everything from 4,250-5,000 backspin, but the best thing I’ve found is the Trackman PGA average spin rates which is 5,361 @ 132mph ball speed. Given that my ball speed is higher, I’m estimating that I should be around 5,582, if I can get my launch angle up 1-2 degrees either from weakening loft or going to a higher launching iron like the T-MB, this should really help my descent angle. Does this sound like a good path to go down?

    3) Lastly, I hit my buddies T-MB 5 iron with a hard stepped Project X 6.5 in it. Numbers started to look better,

    5i - T-MB - Proj X 6.5HS club speed (105.1) ball speed (148.2) smash factor (1.41) launch angle (10.9) back spin (5571) peak height (34yrds) landing angle (45) carry (218)

    So I'm thinking two possible setups: PX 7.0 with the lofts 2 degrees weak

    -or-

    Nippon Modus 3 130 X with lofts 0-2 degrees weak. I haven't hit this shaft yet, so not sure how it compares to a 7.0 PX I may have to hard step it 1 or 2 times, and I’m not sure how much higher launch I can expect vs. the PX 7.0.

    Any thoughts on these potential setups?

    Any other thoughts for me? Thanks a ton!

  2. Chris Hatem

    Chris Hatem
    Boston

    You hit your clubs 20 yards longer than PGA Tour average... I think we should be asking you for advice. I see a lot of good data, but no angle of attack/spin loft stats. That is what you should be aiming to reduce if you are trying to spin it less. I have a hard time believing that the PX 7.0 is the only answer. Maybe the 6.5s or the x100, and a shallower attack angle would make a better over ball flight.
  3. Nate W

    Nate W

    Thanks Chris, happy to get some comments going! Totally agree on the angle of attack and spin loft numbers, I've been hesitant to invest $$$ in Trackman time, because 1) they' they're all indoors near me, which for a digger like me quickly results in me adapting my swing (typically start sweeping, and accelerating less than I do on grass).

    Since I'm not playing competitively right now , (or frequently enough) I don't really want to start a swing change as drastic as shallowing out my Angle of Attack, I could quickly see myself ending up in no-mans land "stuck between two patterns" as Tiger would say. I played Tennis through college and I think that my ability to hold my right wrist's angle and release very late is one of the strengths of my swing, so scared to go down a new road.

    My thinking now is, even with 6.5s in my AP2s I'm spinning too much and launching low. So getting a low-mid launch and low spin shaft like the Modus 130 and adding a couple degrees of loft on a lower spinning head like the T-MB might get me into a better place for now. I just don't have enough knowledge to know how far to push it- getting lofts too weak and too much launch is going to be just as bad as low and spinny. :)
  4. Spudstarch

    Spudstarch
    Walnut Creek, CA

    Hi Nate,

    What happens to your ball flight when you use a light weight shaft?

    Spud

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